WoW > General Discussion

What makes Classic WoW an authentic Vanilla experience

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Squibbi:
1) Patch 1.1 progressive to 1.12. Fuck the haters, time to level prot.
2) Same with actual content, especially items, ESP PVP gear. Should be correct relative to when it was itemised.
3) Strip all buffs upon Raid zone.
4) Guild bank would be godlike, everything else can fuck right off.
5) Go crazy with bought tabards, horsies, pets etc as long as its not new 'MEGA GLITTERPONY WITH WINGS' style crap.
6) 16 debuffs from the start is actually pretty elegant so im fine with that.
7) No fixing of DM/LBRS/ARENA etc farms.
8) 2500 server hard cap.
9) Redo all Bosses with no innate Resistances to have standard Resistances.
10) Namechanges are actually a dealbreaker for me and started the current collapse into toxic wow community imo.

Drdoomblunt:
Versions of Vanilla:
I very much like the way the classic vanilla survey outlined it.

Day 1 maraudon is fine since it was patched in 1.2, before most people had even really hit 60/raided.

Post release Dire Maul, Kazzak and Azuregos since this affects the end-game pre-raid BiS and 1.3 was launched 5 months after release version, which bare in mind was 1.1 not 1.0.

Gurubashi event on release is also fine, this is a world-pvp flavour event with no dramatic shake-up to those chasing r14/r15.

WSG, AB and AV on release would be fine, but I would also kind of like to see this delayed, just to see how natural wpvp develops, whether it will focus on the usual hillsbrad, STV and plaguelands zones or not. AB should always be bundled with WSG release I think, because if you delay AV like Nost, farming just WSG for a few months is hell on earth.

Raid releases should follow the tier progression, though I'm unsure where you want to put ZG into the schedule (AQ20 obviously has to launch with AQ40 despite it's weird tier placement also.) Dungeon tiers should also be patched in appropriately, though I don't have the knowledge of them well enough to say when.

Darkmoon faire on release makes no difference to me, but the buffs should perhaps be disabled to combat some of the cheese buffing guilds did (us included at one point in time I remember ;) ) And on that note I agree that I don't want to see world buffs, perhaps until the next tier patch, i.e. no Ony buffs for MC until BWL is released, and disabled in BWL until AQ is released. It works as a "buff" for the most current content and a "nerf" for previous tiers to make alt raiding and new guilds a bit smoother, though someone is bound to shout "casual" about this.

Dragons of Nightmare should be post release, though I don't know how well stated the gear compared to Kazzak and Azuregos. If it is comparable, they should be bundled and all world bosses dropped at once. If they're better, release them with the appropriate 40 man raid.

War Effort is a tough one, I don't know enough about it to comment on scaling it, but obviously it should be a prerequisite for AQ no matter what.

X-Realm BGs are fine in my opinion, dependant on if they use vanilla-like realm caps or not, and battlegroups for server clustering. I don't want to see arenas added though. Vanilla classes are not appropriately balanced for rated 2v2, 3v3 or 5v5.

I'd like to see dungeon player caps and talents set at 1.12 levels, with some gear like Strat at it's 1.12 equivalent, but I'm not so sure how to deal with the likes of PvP gear and such, that's probably for someone a lot more knowledgable than me to say.

Quality of life:
Integration of battle.net friends lists, this literally just cuts down adding every single one of your friends alts. No real impact on gameplay.

Open raid finder/dungeon finder, similar to the system on retail. By this I don't mean the LFR/LFD system, but the group listing feature where you can recruit for mythic dungeons, and normal and up raids. Really all this does is create a clean UI feature instead of having to use /world, some might argue it encourages players to do their recruiting outside of city /2, but people did it anyway on /LFG or /world, so I don't see the difference personally.

Pet/mounts tab is also fine. However I think it should only be a shortcut/extrapolation of your bag content. You should be penalised for carrying around all 5 of each factions mounts by losing 20 bag slots, and carrying round 100 pets should take 100 bag slots.

Class balance:

As above, keep it 1.12, perhaps tweak any exploits or bugs with classes that were well known in 1.12 (not mangOS specific or other such private server bugs). No one, even the most "hardcore" of player wants to roll a class only for a patch to make it nigh un-viable for several weeks. However, I don't want to see them change class balance from 1.12. The niches some classes fill such as shadow priest or feral druid are part of the charm and wonder of 40 man raiding, because the comp can be as important as your abilities as raiders. If blizzard choose to go down the 1.13 route of content, I would accept a degree of class balancing so long as you aren't looking to give every class everything like retail. Don't make retri a viable dps spec, or bear tanking possible for MT, etc. but are just further developing the class roles established in 1.12. As above, no giving shamans a dedicated tanking route in their trees, or putting warrior level taunts in pally/bear spellbooks.

Moving on from those, I'd actually like them to add custom vanilla patches/expansions, on the proviso that everything is voted for by the playerbase a-la 07runescape. I think only accounts with at least 1 level 60 should be able to vote on these changes and everything should be thorough internally tested, with no previews or fatboss exclusive or datamining so people can prepare strats way in advance. That's a real vanilla experience, going in blind with minimal guides available at first and learning how to deal with bosses or learning how to wait 2 weeks for actually competent people to clear it and tell you what to do. Things they planned for but cut, like emerald dream, caverns of time, Kara maybe, hyjal dragon isles, the STV islands, stuff like that to start with, then perhaps branching into the more outlandish ideas (no pun intended, also don't make vanilla hellfire peninsula please). I think that'd be cool to see blizzard design new content with a vanilla ethos, but that's just me. Also I don't want any post-60 leveling. If they want to patch in a new 30-40 zone or something I'd probably accept it, but otherwise, only post-naxx raids and new/harder 60 dungeons.

I think blizzard should also seriously consider how they deal with realms. I think they should maximums and minimums on servers, with regular mergers. I'm not really the best person to ask, but I'd say anywhere in the ball-park of 3-5 maximums and 0.75-1.5k minimums. If they expect people to pay for this products via sub or box fee, I think we should reasonably expect regular server mergers to ensure every server has a healthy playerbase, otherwise you fall into some of the actual retail pitfalls where dead servers get deader and big servers get bigger, dead servers don't open AQ until 2.4 sometimes, big servers mean no one can ever kill world bosses without copious alt camping.

Uggsten:
I would much rather they release TBC server instead of creating new content post naxx tbh. Although it would be fun, it's also not something that's ever gonna happen, since this would ultimately force current retail people to play it in order to experience everything.

I they are gonna do cross-realm BGs I'd want it to be 2-3 realms max that gets merged together, since any more then that and you don't get that old community feel of intense hatred for that 1 player on the opposite faction on your server.

I am not really a huge fan of the retail LFG for mythic dungeons tho. It turns some of the social aspect into a drop down menu and you can just list for the dungeon you want to do and get whispered. From a pure QoL or efficiency PoV it's way better, but that's not what makes vanilla vanilla.

We all agree on the server cap tho, which is nice. and we're also capable of civil discussion, so we're atleast more mature than the wow forums. yay us!

Jasuba:
Lovely thread, Ugg.

I personally want the game to start in it's first patch and progress how it was back in retail. I want to have mages spec into Arcane so their Arcane Explosion won't have a 2 second cast time. (-0.4 sec cast time per talent point if I recall correctly)

I want it blizz-like, which is why I got sad that pretty much every private server had the patch 1.12 talents.

That being said I'd love for them to remove some bugs prior to patch releases. WF infinite proc buffs, infinite pala stacking so they can solo kazzak, and all that shit. Heck, even get ruid of the fucking bug where you port to Alterac Mountain if you die inside the furbolg cave in Winterspring. I'll admit I had load of fun popping my cooldowns on people inside that cave when I was farming E'kos, but bugs such as those I could deal without.

PvP Wise I absolutely hate the notion of adding it early. Those 4-5 day crossroad raids with 100v100 was EPIC. Defending that shit for days on end, only to push them back to Ashenvale, and completely obliterated Astranaar was what made classic pvp so fantastic. That being said, I'd love to have AB released along with WSG.

Oh and remove the black lotus from AV. Honestly remove every gathering shit from BG's. As a pvper the worst thing you can see is cunts scratching their balls being semi afk fishing. And as far as the black lotus in AV goes, I feel it's pretty unfair especially considering how mages and palas for the most part have eternal dibs on it.


Personally I don't mind having a blizzard store where people can buy pets or tabards and shit. Ofcourse it's abit infuriating seeing some shithead 13 year old with every purchasable pet and mount,but with those shitters comes better servers in terms of stability etc.

The server cap would be great at 2500-3500 or something. I don't want anything to do with the crossrealm bullshit. That was the moment in Vanilla where I feel it lost its magic.

That is what made vanilla so great. You knew about people from your server, whether it was some asshole in your own faction that was arrogant, retarded or the real MVP, while on the enemy faction side you had people you hated. People encroaching on your farming spots. People camping you. The cunt rogues who didnt dare to 1v1 unless you had pulled a mob or two.

In one regard I want everything as vanilla-like as possible,but on the other side of things we've gotten to know Vanilla inside and out, which makes it very exploitable, whether it's mara farming, AV lotus hunting or trash farming in DM. There are a load of issues I'd love to have fixed, but at the same time I want it as vanilla as possible, which makes it a god damn paradox for me.

The one thing I could agree on, atleast for a trial run is the removal of world buffs on content release. Having all the min-maxing stuff is fun and all,but in reality it makes the raid 5 hours instead of 4, and it creates a really unforgiving environment(which I'd argue vanilla is already). Removing or fixing the world buffs could prevent moments when some people get alot of heat because of a fuck up. We're supposed to play to have fun, and yes losing all the buffs suck a fat dick,but you'll always find people who feel justified in their verbal assaults cause person X fucked up and made all of us lose our buffs.

And regarding what Doom said. I would personally not mind having maraudon on release. It made it so Desolace didn't feel so desolate (no pun intended), and it serves as a nice life-line for people struggling in that level 40-50 area of lvling. Only having ST to farm for items gets dull rather quick.

And as Squibbi said: name change is a dealbreaker. there are so many selfish and cunty assholes in any moba, and giving them the option to pay 10 euro for a namechange is a big nono, which brings me back to the x-realm view I had. Back in vanilla people knew each other for better or worse. What you said and did mattered to an extent. Giving people the option to change their name or faction even is practically a get out of jail free card. I also believe it makes it so you connect to your character. I personally would connect more with a character I named Jasuba instead of something as juvenile and retarded as Dicksledge.

And to all of you who did not play retail vanilla, who feel you know all the classes and shit. Would it not be fun to see vanilla how it's supposed to be? all the janky and bullshit talents each class had. 1.12 talents is basically classes on steroids. Take part in the angsty teenage years where you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

Noisy/Chode:

--- Quote from: Squibbi on 27 November, 2017, 12:34:14 AM ---1) Patch 1.1 progressive to 1.12. Fuck the haters, time to level prot.
2) Same with actual content, especially items, ESP PVP gear. Should be correct relative to when it was itemised.
3) Strip all buffs upon Raid zone.
4) Guild bank would be godlike, everything else can fuck right off.
5) Go crazy with bought tabards, horsies, pets etc as long as its not new 'MEGA GLITTERPONY WITH WINGS' style crap.
6) 16 debuffs from the start is actually pretty elegant so im fine with that.
7) No fixing of DM/LBRS/ARENA etc farms.
8) 2500 server hard cap.
9) Redo all Bosses with no innate Resistances to have standard Resistances.
10) Namechanges are actually a dealbreaker for me and started the current collapse into toxic wow community imo.

--- End quote ---

This^ is perfect except for the mounts imho. If I see a nerd on a winterspring sabre, I want to know that this is a creature who excells in maintaining sweaty armpits in cold climates, and should not under any circumstance be challenged in snow.

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